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June 03, 2005

Comments

Dave

I like where you're going with this. I would only suggest that some scientists be considered for inclusion in this category. If I may be so so bold as to link to my own posts (not as conceited as it sounds - each consists mainly of quotes): The way of a naturalist, Part 1 http://neithernor.blogspot.com/2004/01/way-of-naturalist.html and Part 2: http://neithernor.blogspot.com/2004/01/way-of-naturalist-part-2.html

dale

I don't know. There's no theoretical reason why it can't be done, I think. Empirically, though -- I don't think many people can pull it off. All the world's taunts and blandishments pushing right up against all our weaknesses, and no cloister or wilderness to stand between -- well, certainly my own attempts have not been very successful.

kasturi

Hi Dave, I made the changes you suggested and the links work fine now. Great! I see we've both read 'Ancient Futures' on life in Ladakh. I remember feeling this should be required reading!

I agree with you that scientists should be included in this list, also some scholars, and I've even known mothers and fathers who raised their children as part of their awareness practice. I'm enjoying reading some of the articles on your site.

Dale, I agree that there must be 'support.' I think for urban, secular 'monkly types' FRIENDS provide that support. And of course, one's DAILY PRACTICE is a great support, and hopefully there is some modicum of spiritual community as well, even if it's just once a week. But of course there is going to be STRUGGLE. That is a very big part of being a monk.

Now, being a 'hermit' in an urban secular environment is a much taller order.

What I've found in my own life, is that you feel like you're 'running in place' (perhaps for decades) and tend to think 'it's not working, I'm not really doing it, or I'm not doing it well enough,' but mysteriously there is some change that comes on as gradually as the dawn. Perhaps there is something about that small constant effort - not that it's 'cause-and-effect' - not that it looks like what we thought, but the data comes in, the alchemical process works, ... eventually. I have that faith, and I wouldn't except that it does seem to be working - present, what, participle? - in my own experience, and in the people around me.

Anyway, when I visit your site, it looks to me like you're doing all right.

Lawrence Walker

Here it is May 2007, several years after this post. I just googled "secular monk in America" and this came up, and it is certainly relevant. I write a blog called "A Better Nation," and as my distance with the surrounding culture increases, I toy with calling myself a secular monk. I', 49. I chose as a teenager not to have children and to never own a television. I lead some bike tours now and then, but otherwise I barely work, have almost no income and do all sorts of things to tread lightly. My monkdom has nothing to do with religion or dieties. It does have to do with going on strike against modern American culture. I'd like to hear from others who have an interest in the idea of living simply.

pamina

There is a book with the title, "Ordinary people living as monks," or something like that. Some people interviewed in it felt that they almost have to apologize for their way of life to friends and family, for not living the "American Dream". The "American Dream" from its very inception was about independence -- of thought, religion, enterprise, and from external controls. When did it become about the house and dog and driveway? What is independent about keeping up with the Joneses? or the Japanese? or the competition? or the nuclear arms race? I think the rise of the corporation in the late nineteenth century fostered values that were un-American in the sense that I describe. It created a conformist coporate/consumerist culture that is more suited to the Japanese, a tendency towards monopoly and obliteration of business competition, a dependence on government and taxes for bailouts, patronage and special privileges; war-mongering for profit; and invasion and conquest of other nations, which is unconstitutional and/because philosophically hypocritical. Another book I'd like to mention is "Inner Revolution" by Robert Thurman, where he credits Siddhartha for creating a new class of citizens in Indian society -- people who neither ruled like the nobles nor worked like the merchants and laborers, nor taught like the educators, but devoted their time to meditation and study. The elevated energy they brought to the society was deemed valuable enough by the kings who funded their very existence. Changes in society were observed by the simple fact that there were a group of people in it who did not spend their energies earning a living and building families. For every person who is perplexed, disturbed or resentful of a person who does not worry about money or work, there is another who is relieved, gladdened and a little envious. Simple "being" is a reminder of the nature of Gd, of what we truly are and where we came from. As the Christ said, 'Be like the lilies, they do not work or spin but not even Solomon with all his riches was ever as beautifully clothed as they.'

fred

I too was extremely intrigued by "secular monasticism" so I joined a quasi secular monastery that is opening a brewery. It's an actual religion. actualreligion.org

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